CANA show their true colours
Yesterday OCICBW... received a comment that I immediately deleted because it was far too important to be hidden on a minor thread. Since then I have checked its authenticity and have been given the names of all parties and organisations involved. Due to the 100% trust I have in the sources, I have no doubt that this is a true story. However, if I mention just one of the names involved a person will, most probably, lose their job in the Church (yes, we are that close to the event itself).
So, accept this story as fact or fable - the choice is yours.
But it is true.
Regarding people who hate, discriminate, and affiliate with hateful Africans ... (I've been keeping quiet about this, but now I've decided it's time to stop that.)
There is a parish in the far reaches of our diocese that decided to affiliate with Peter Akinola and the Nigerians. They are now looking for a new rector.
A woman from the search committee contacted the bishop of this diocese and asked him to send an interim rector.
The bishop of this diocese told her he could not do so and that they would have to ask Akinola to send them an interim rector.
The lovely little lady then said they didn't want to do that because they are afraid Akinola will send them a black person.
While I give the bishop credit for this, I cannot forget that he is also very much in favor of discrimination against GLBT Episcopalians in this diocese. He considers himself a "Windsor Bishop," but unlike most of the "Windsor Bishops," he has read the part about avoiding schism.
Some of you know who this is from. PLEASE DO NOT MENTION THAT PERSON'S NAME OR LOCATION or make any guesses concerning bishop and parish. This is the sort of thing people get sued over.
56 comments:
Boy, if I were the (Episcopal) bishop in this affair, I wouldn't be able to stop swearing long enough to answer the lady's question. "So let me get this straight: you have repudiated me and the Church of which I am a part, but you expect me to find you a nice white priest -- and would that be an evil godless Episcopalian, by the way? -- lest your beloved Akinola, Defender of All Orthodoxy, send you a black person? Let me tell you what you can do . . ."
The primary election in West Virginia proved that racism is alive and well in the US, just stifled slightly. When asked, individuals said they would not vote for a black person. That church needs a good black female Episcopal priest. Not a pseudo Anglican - a real Episcopalian of the Barbara Harris ilk. 8>)
Quel surprise.
Having seen the post before you deleted it, and having barely held myself back from commenting on it then, I know who and where it was from, MP. One of the dirty little secrets in the closet the US secessionists - the African-American in their Woodpile, so to speak - is that they wouldn't give the time of day to one of their African primates if passed him in his "civies", standing on a street corner in their hometown. With the occasional exception, racism is ingrained in the US right-wing mindset.
Be interesting to see how long the Nigeria/Uganda affiliation of some of the earliest secessionist congregations stands up to competition from the lily-white Southern Cone.
I almost have to feel sorry for the African bishops who took these congregations in. They introduced right-wing American culture and politics into their churches. As soon as Teh Gays are safely escorted into their closets or out altogether, they will be clashing over other issues and dealing with people who aren't afraid to pick up their toys and leave.
On economic matters and some matters of social policy, African bishops and right-wing Republicans have little in common.
When you hear the first sermon about how the First World exploited Africa and should tithe foreign aid as compensation, the fur is going to fly.
Yep...There it is, alive and well..
"Who do we hate? Niggers, Spics, Fags and Jews" - Good old right wing Americans at their finest.
UGH.
Eileen,
Don't forget Uppity Women and Godless Liberals. :)
Who could forget uppity women?
If there's one thing I've learnt in life it is that uppity wimmin never let you forget.
Gentlebloggers,
I'm a Libertarian with thick skin, but me thinks that the ad hominem tarbrushing of CANA is unqualified. One asshat does not speak for an entire organization.
LapinB, I believe that if you were to study the the period from reconstruction to 1964 in an objective light, you'd be quite enlightened.
The Klan rode at night to run off the republicans.
Democrats were blocking the Highschool door in Littlerock, and it was a Republican who sent the 101st airborne to move them aside.
It was a Democrat President and AG who ordered domestic spying on Rev Dr. King.
Republicans were the driving force behind the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
I divorced myself from the "Red vs. Blue" mindset years ago because they were slinging more mud than your average tractor pull.
A Blessing upon all your Dwellings,
AT
Can this marriage be saved? Of course not. It's not working, and it will never work. They can call it CANA, but that won't make it a marriage that will last.
Republicans were the driving force behind the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
This was before the parties did the ideological flip.
But what do you expect? Once you allow open discrimmination and exclusion it becomes nothing more than a question of every parishes personal pet topic.
So, here an anguished question from my intellectually honest son. Where does he an honest conservative, with deep reservations about some of his dad's nutty liberal ideas go?
Clearly he is not going down what ever goofy racist road CANA and its hate mongers are traveling. Clearly too, every time I celebrate a polity victor he winces. He does not require (I told you he is intellectually honest) a church that agrees with him, merely one that will respect his conservative ideas.
Given that these racist homophobes are now increasing the face of the "right" how does he make himself a place where his ideas can be treated fairly?
These goofs do damage to more than the left!
FWIW
jimB
And after 1964, AT, when the White Democratic South turned solid Republican on account of LBJ's freeing their slaves again? Come off it, AT! I've lived in South Carolina for 30-some years, and I did not say what I posted above out of prejudice.
JimB ... Hmmm ... Has he considered that perhaps it is his "ideas" might need a good re-think?
Lapinbizzare, you are quite correct. I think that there are people of a certain age who missed that part of US political history and have not yet learned about it.
Where does he an honest conservative, with deep reservations about some of his dad's nutty liberal ideas go?
Jim, he could come to my church. I am the odd man - er, woman - out here. I mostly keep my mouth shut unless others bring the up the subject. It ain't a comfortable place to be, but it's where I am. My views are not respected in my church. That's one reason that I started my blog - so I would not explode, as I did not want to be constantly haranguing my fellow parishioners with my opposing views.
Mike, Lapin, I know you're with me in this. With respect to the so-called "post-racial society" in the US, you will see that myth blown to smithereens in the coming months in the campaign for president.
this uppity woman says it like Counterlight said it --but without the french overtones --what a surprise.... NOT.
--margaret
Jim
Disown him and cut off his inheritance
or if you wish to be more scripturally conservative
take him to the city gate and stone him to death
it's for his own good and the good of all mankind
I'm uppity and proud of it!
And I'm a Godless liberal too!
And I also think I'm a nigger, a spic, a fag and a Jew!
SO THERE...Mark me down for aaaallll of that...
I don't think we have libertarians in England. We have librarians but I think they're something completely different. But I assume libertarians must be something like libertines, with a sort of individualistic, anything goes philosophy. Therefore, how can a libertarian be against anything that gives freedom to other individuals?
Racist preconceptions of "the other" are going to to cause tension on both sides of the relationship. African stereotyping of the west ("All Westerners are disrespectful, immoral and crassly materialist") is just as real as the loathesome prejudice of this lady.
Time will prove +Akinola and his colleagues have as many difficulties coping with congregations who lack what he sees as "proper Christian respect for leadership" as these communities will with a notion of leadershio which they will find paternalist and condescending. And the fallout when that starts hitting the fans won't be pretty.
Great Eileen
But can you cook?
MP, I usually characterize US Libertarians as "I've got mine. Fuck you."
I'd have thought that they'd have managed to hide their true feelings about the 'nigras' for a little longer than this. It's exactly this sort of blurt on the part of a well meaning selection committee member amplified on the blogs which will will - oh well - which will tell the truth!
This isn't just a trans-atlantic issue. Back in the mid-80's I wrote for details of a wealthy little parish on the English south coast, and got back their Parish Profile. In it they asked for a white, married man with no sexual hang-ups. I knew what they were getting at in the last requirement, but I took offence at the first. I asked the Diocese what they were going to do about it, and got the reply that at least those applying would know what sort of parish it was. That wasn't sufficient for me and I referred the matter to the Race Relations Board. They investigated, and the Diocese had to agree that such a comment would never again be allowed by any parish. I don't really wonder why my Licence was not extended beyond one year over my seven, and I became unemployed for a short while until an enlightened Midlands parish appointed me.
Sometimes you have to stick your head above the parapet.
I beleive Libertarians are Conservatives who want to smoke dope.
SR, good for you!
I beleive Libertarians are Conservatives who want to smoke dope.
And carry their guns and not wear their crash helmets while riding motorcycles.
Not quite...
A better summation of Libertarian thought is My right to throw a punch ends the moment it touches another nose.
Three years ago, I came to the realization that we seem to be (Collectively), a collection of simpering, whiny schmoes who are hopelessly attached to the teet of a malignant nanny state. This condition has been shared by Blue/Red, Reasserter/Reappraiser alike.
As a Christian Libertarian, I live with a heart to God and a hand to humanity.
My somewhat more than two-cents.
Peace ta y'all
On a side note -
Is this the AT Troll of reputed questionable previous antigay posts coming out of the closet with an identity? Or is this someone else?
Nooooo....
Though I do have strong hetrocentric leanings, I don't single out any group other than tin-pot thirdworld despots who stand on the necks of the oppressed.
My apologies then Andy.
We have a Troll who obsesses here on occasion with all sorts of anti-GLBT trash. He signs his posts AT, but is otherwise anonymous.
Why yes, Crazy Ass, actually, I CAN cook. I'm a pretty damn good cook.
I'm a damn good uppity woman-Godlessliberal-nigger-spic-fag-jew Cook.
And don't YOU forget it....
I even made the state of California overturn their ban on gay marriage. Me..all by myself...
Could I advertise for a black lesbian in a wheelchair?
For a pastor, obviously.
Eileen, I bow before you.
I agree with Toujourdan way up there. The marriage between American rightwingers and African bishops is very much one of convenience. It will end immediately when American policy and ambitions clash with African nationalism, which will be very soon.
Mike in Texas and Padre Mickey sum up my feelings about Libertarianism. Libertarian was about as far left as anyone went in Texas when I was growing up. Ayn Rand was considered loony left in those days. Go figure.
Mad One,
He is a good kid really. Believs that marrige by its historic nature is a child rearing specific thing. He is willing to see it extend to lesbian / gay couples but he wants it to go away for 90 something families. I am really rather proud of him.
But(!) he wants the States and the church to make its decisions without being told. He is as annoyed with ++Akinola as I, but equally wants the communion to respect what Nigeria does.
He asks I think a valid question. Where do conservatives go? Are the lefties so far down the exclusionist road that they have no space for them?
FWIW
jimB
Doorman...I knew I liked you...
Gentle Andy,
I don't need one more asshat to encourage me in attacking the the eccleastical thugs called CANA. Really, one more doesn't make any difference at all.
Any counter-attack made by me is ad hominem only to the extent that it attacks the man. Peter Akinola, Marty Minns, the rest... yes, I think their character and motives are easily and rightly attacked. They should be exposed for the devils they are. Their claims of Windsor compliance, etc are ridiculous on their face. A kindergarterner could see as much.
So, you see, the one single asshat will neither encourage nor discourage me in standing firm against CANA.
LInda Diane McMillan
PS - Thanks Eileen!
I assume the petition for a ballot iniative is underway already.
Uh, Jim, I find it hard to believe your son can't find a nice conservative church. The Baptists are everywhere and they are fairly conservative. As for TEC, it is what it is. If that is not what your son is looking for then there are plenty of other places for him to go. Good luck finding someplace for him. Someplace ELSE please.
Andy,
I'm glad to learn you are not the "AT" I suspected.
However, your reading of recent American History is as ignorant as may be expected from a graduate of the U S educational system, which approaches the absolute.
He is as annoyed with ++Akinola as I, but equally wants the communion to respect what Nigeria does.
Jim, what is it that the church of Nigeria does that your son deems worthy of respect that the communion is disrespecting? This is a serious question.
Jim wrote: "He does not require (I told you he is intellectually honest) a church that agrees with him, merely one that will respect his conservative ideas. "
and
"Where do conservatives go? Are the lefties so far down the exclusionist road that they have no space for them?"
Jim's comments were not in regarding his son's finding a "conservative church," but finding a church in which he doesn't have to "closet" his beliefs and pretend to be someone else. The responses in this thread would seem to indicate that it would be best for Jim's son "to be among his own kind" (My paraphrase.). I don't think that's what he's seeking. I would hope that there is a place somewhere in TEC where inclusion is truly practiced. Are we that afraid of having others around that don't agree with us? I'm in a church setting where I'm a creedal fundamentalist freak (and a bit of a libertarian with a lower case 'l'), and I LOVE it as it threatens no one. I learn much from others, and I hope that I have something to contribute to them.
As regular readers know, since I mention it often, I grew up in Evangelical Land. I was always very bothered that in that setting, if someone were identified as being political liberal, immediate assumptions were made about the authenticity of their faith. I have no interest in living in an alternate ecclesiastical universe in which the practice is mirrored. I'd just as soon do "home church."
As one born in West Virgina, I take great offense at the comment about racism. It seems in this country you can not attack anyone but poor white people. I know for a fact that most of the people of West Virginia struggled over whom to give their vote. I have no doubt that some of them did not vote for Obama because of his skin color, but I figure that happened in other places as well. West Virgina is the whipping boy of the entire country. People who haven't lived there need to watch their opinions...especially ones derived from the media.
In the early 1900's wealthy business interests came from the Northeast, raped the state, and put the people in servatitude. They are a little suspious of outsiders because of the very thing that happened this week...the sterotyping will never end.
Tim
Tucson, AZ USA
By the way, West Virgina's United Methodist bishop is African America and much loved by the people of the church
Quite right pax58, and any one associated with His Grace Archbishop Akinola knows He would never permit such a thing to occur.
Father Christian
http://gafcon.blogspot.com
eileen TUW,
Does that mean that you cook Kosher Italian Sould Food?
The mind boggles - those are some great flavors.
BJ
I know for a fact that most of the people of West Virginia struggled over whom to give their vote.
Come now, Tim, that's clearly hyperbole.
Many in West Virginia have a problem w/ black people...
...just like many in Pennsylvania (the "Alabama" part, between Philly and Pittsburgh---excepting State College! Obama actually won there).
I used to live in that part of Pennsylvania (and researched it, as well). This was the sort of place where, at a county fair, people felt fine wearing t-shirts w/ a picture MLKJr in cross-hairs and the caption "Our Dream Came True!"
:-(
Lord have mercy...
I stand by my comments. The high school I went to was 50% African American, I graduated from a historical black college in WV, its alot more diverse population than the media makes out.
What you are saying it true in the sense that there are racist people in every state, why is it that the media seem to point out the ones in WV? Could it be because the media seems to mostly sterotype the state in a way that is unfair?
I consider myself a liberal, but even liberals can be intolerate of people they don't know or understand. WV has given much to the rest of the country and has been pretty much kicked around by the rest of the country, enough is enough.
Jim and KJ
To an extent I think it's a non-question. For a start, we are not going to end this particular phase of our church history with a "leftist" church. It will be the same mash-up of different opinions as there has always been but with, hopefully, full inclusion of gay people.
I have been at my church for over 7 years. There are about 170 adults in the congregation. I have no idea what any of their political views are for certain. I certainly don't know how they vote. On theological matters there is a full representation of different opinions. Nobody feels excluded, even when they disagree with something I say in the pulpit and I make sure I don't make people feel excluded, and I don't tell them they have to believe what I believe.
For most of my adult life I have lived in a country with a conservative leader. When Mrs Thatcher came to power in 1979 nobody offered me my own socialist prime minister. But I have never felt any less English or less part of my country.
Anyway, from what I have learnt in England since the ordination of women was allowed, conservatives really enjoy being the "injured party." They have formed their own little support groups and are having far more fun than they did before they lost the vote.
Mad One,
I think it should be a none question, but it doesn't always seem to be. Any time I get a whiff of a desire to be surrounded by only those with whom we are in complete theological and political agreement, and assumptions regarding spirituality are made based upon political affiliation, I get very uncomfortable. Been there; done that. There's no way I'm going back to Egypt.
Mad One, kj,
I agree it should be a none question. I also think it is not.
Some time ago, in Atlanta, there was a conference called, "Justice IS Orthodoxy." Any one there, clearly wasa person who wanted full inclusion for lesbian and gay folks, clergy or layity. What struck me was the automatic assumption among most of the attendees that everyone was a Democtat Party voter. Sue-z and I found, by simply being quiet, the other two people who were not Kerry voters.
The four of us did not feel completely welcome. Not about sexuality, two married straights, one lesbian, one gay man, we clearly violated the assumptions.
My son is not a right wing nut. He and I toasted California last night. But he is more traditional and conservative than a good bith of the now dominant TEC view of many subjects. And while I think Mad One, you describe what should be, it is clear from somthing as simple as the posts above, that not all of the church is there.
FWIW
jimB
KJ
I've been thinking about this since yesterday and I have come to the conclusion that the tie in between morality and political party in this country is pretty much non-existent. In fact, when politicians have tried it they have been clearly told to mind their own business. Our conservatives are not anti-gay (it would mess up the social lives of a lot of them if they were) and, I'm afraid, plenty of old school socialists are as capable of being homophobic as the next straight man.
This attitude extends into church. Moral issues such as welfare and universal healthcare are not regarded as political issues and even the most staunchly conservative churchgoer would never argue against the basic moral beliefs of both my church and country.
Something like abortion would split a congregation but not down party lines.
So I think I may see it as a non-issue because it is a non-issue in my church and country. I'm sorry, we can be so boring at times.
Ah, yes Jim. It's becoming clear to me.
English people are overwhelmingly apolitical until they enter the polling booth (if they can be bothered) on election day. There is no way you could work out the politics of all but a very few people attending a church debate of any kind.
And if you could it wouldn't matter anyway because we don't divide ourselves up by politics.
That is why we are so depressed about the Muslim situation - they don't club together like we do and they have politicised religion, just like the pesky Irish. And that is not the done thing.
why is it that the media seem to point out the ones in WV? Could it be because the media seems to mostly sterotype the state in a way that is unfair?
Tim (I'm assuming the above is from Tim), I think you're stereotyping "the media", every bit as much as you claim the media is stereotyping WV. [I saw precisely ONE "pointing out" of racist WV voters, the day after the election: on The Daily Show, where EXTREMES of behavior are ALWAYS pointed out! ;-p And, I might add, I think my "survey" of media representations of West Virginians, in the days up to and immediately following the primary, is AT LEAST as thorough and accurate as your "I know for a fact that most of the people of West Virginia struggled over whom to give their vote." While you're "standing by your comments", how in the world is the above claim NOT hyperbole?]
I don't, FWIW, think that West Virginians are much different than other people of their predominant demographics (we know what those are---I don't need to repeat them). I do believe that Mountaineers have been stereotyped, to their detriment---and, it goes w/o saying, ALL working-class people have been SCREWED not only the past 7 years, but far longer.
My point is mainly---whatever our oppression (queer person here!)---to 1) not resort to hyperbolic statements which actually HURT our cause (in their ridiculousness) 2) FACE "the fact" that oppressed persons sometimes DO have bigoted thoughts, and oppressive actions, against other oppressed groups. [e.g., white LGBTs are often racists, too. Black (straight) people are often homophobic. Jews are often anti-Arab. Etc. etc. etc., ad nauseum. :-( ]
BJ - That's right..I cook Italian Kosher Soul Food...like a cookin' little uppitywomangodlessliberalnsfj that I am....
Behold my borscht pig knuckles with orgegano....
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