us biology teacher
acts like schoolboy
From THE WASHINGTON TIMES:
An anti-religion Minnesota biology professor expects to receive dozens of consecrated Communion wafers in response to his public solicitation that people send him the hosts in order that he may publicly desecrate them. Paul Z. Myers, an associate professor at the University of Minnesota, says he will commit the sacrilege to protest Catholic criticism of an earlier case of Communion desecration, by Webster Cook at the University of Central Florida, which included calls for Mr. Cook's expulsion and death threats. He also said he wants to point out that "I am under no obligation to revere the sacred objects of the Catholic Church.... I don't have to treat it as a little idol."
Mr. Myers first made the public request on Tuesday at his personal web site which at the time was linked to the university's Web site.
In an interview Friday, Mr. Myers said he already had received "a double-digit number" of positive responses, from people saying that they would try to get consecrated Catholic hosts for him and that the writer already had one.
"Enough that I could sculpt a statue of them," he said, declining to say what he'd do to desecrate them. "I've got a few ideas, but I want to keep the surprise." He speculated that he might "make myself a coat of armor of them to protect myself from Catholics who would do me harm."
The call for consecrated hosts prompted quick anger from Catholics. "Can we say, 'perpetual adolescent?' Yes, we can," wrote Elizabeth Scalia at the Anchoress Online.
Within the past two days, the link from the Minnesota-Morris biology department's page to Mr. Myers' personal site, which regularly ridicules religious believers as ignorant and superstitious, has been removed.
COMMENT: What a very silly person. He could personally prove that the theory of evolution is empirically false.
28 comments:
He's just reacting to the adolescent rantings of Bill Donohue, whom we have previously discussed here and here. If you want the original Myers source, it starts here and continues on in about six subsequent posts.
What else do you expect from an outspoken atheist that wingnuts like to throw metaphorical rocks at? Reverence?
This has gotten entirely out of hand. But what a bad example this teacher is setting for his students. Schools should be teaching respect for the beliefs of others, not that it's ok to tromp on them. (Says the textbook writer / editor of 20 years.)
Well, MP,
We need to hold this man, and people like him in prayer. Obviously, he's been deeply wounded by religion, and is probably very much hurting.
I'd say that Myers has been poorly treated first, and is retaliating by sinking to their level. Yes, he's being childish, but that applies all around.
Christians, Jesus can take care of Himself.
Atheists, don't get worked up over a cracker.
Chilleth, and mind thy manners.
NancyP
This is why I say I never trust fundies: theist or non-!
Why can't ALL fundies just Get.A.Life, and leave the rest of us alone?
It has gone too far. I was going to post but I may just link to you Jonathan- your words are wise.
This has become a case of who gets the last word and it is stupid.
In virtus media stat.
Shit. Out comes the Latin, like a real RC...
What a boring and tedious instructor he must be.
I think I live in the absolute weirdest state in the nation.
I mean, this is the same state where some redneck beat the crap out of his girlfriend with the gator that lived in their bathtub - because she wouldn't go out and get him more beer.
This is way beyond "Deliverance."
Barnes & Noble even published a book called "Weird Florida" that included things like the annual mullet toss (throwing fish across the state line into Alabama) and the annual Possum Fest, coming up the first weekend of August.
Never mind the chupacabra.
Maybe that puts this whole thing in context.
I am putting up a post tomorrow and will link to you.
In part of my blogging circle there are many atheists. And through other avenues, I even know some bloggers who have met Myers.
I think he is just another bloviating blowhard, like Bill Donohue of the Catholic league.
The whole thing is just over the top and descended into the bowels of "teh stupid."
I think you missed this little ditty from Central Florida: http://www.wftv.com/news/16872192/detail.html
his efforts are a bit misplaced.
if he really wants to fight superstition then teach the scientific method and logic and reason to those kids. Give them logic, give them the ability to ask questions in a methodical way that demands empirical answers and the whole edifice of superstition collapses.
play with bread that has had the magic words said over it and you are dabbling in their world and closing minds and hearts.
We need more science and logic and empirical science. If we can get more of that then no matter if people think that a piece of bread has changed in essence to being somehow the source and foundation of existence. They harm no one with their fond beliefs, vainly imagined, as long as the majority have a good education and civil liberties are protected from the excesses of religion.
Instead of acting out on his anger he should do something really and truly subversive: teach logic and the scientific method.
I think that it must be emphasised that this is not a freedom of speech/thought issue as there is a real, violent action involved. No country has freedom of action as that would lead to anarchy. In England this would be a clear case of "incitement."
OK, I'll bite. What violent action is involved?
Not that I am agreeing with his methods. At all.
I would rather he cause real change by teaching his students to question and weigh and examine assumptions, as I said.
But what violence do you see here? Is it possible to be violent towards a thin piece of cardboard flavored bread?
Yes, it is a free speech issue, the same as burning a flag or etc. It is asinine, to say the least and will do little to accomplish anything for a more reasonable basis for life or faith. But at its heart for the rest of us this is a free speech issue.
Although thought and speech are actions they have always been regarded by liberal cultures as a special case worthy of protection from censorship and prosecution, as has the means of making them heard such as peaceful protest and publication.
The desecration of something is an action not protected by such enlightened legislation. Burning a flag or book is as violent an action as desecrating the host.
You are perfectly aware of why it is a violent action.
The Achilles heal of liberals is their failure to be consistent. They can be as guilty as fundamentalists when it comes to picking and choosing to suit themselves.
Burning a flag or book is as violent an action as desecrating the host.
However, all are legal free speech actions in the United States of America, as per their Supreme Court.
David |d...| is right. The only way stomping on a host or burning a flag would be illegal in the US would be if done in public specifically to incite a watching crowd to violence - and even then, it's iffy.
NancyP
The desecration of something is an action not protected by such enlightened legislation.
In America it is. We are consistent in our respect for free speech.
Even though the Bushites have taken a knife to liberty we still have a strong respect for freedom. And will regain it some day. Although I fear that we are headed to joining Britain in covering the country with video cameras to monitor the populace (If you haven't been to London in a few years it will take your breath away when you see all of the cameras that they have every couple of hundred yards. It looks like a prison with constant monitoring of the populace)
If my freedom means that some nut job gets to step on a piece of bread so be it. Freedom matters more than protecting the religious scruples of others. When the inner city Muslims in Britain complain about the use of freedom by non-Muslims you race to the ramparts, MP. Be consistent. Desecrating a consecrated host or drawing a picture of Mohammed or other like behaviors are all equally repugnant.
But all are protected actions in this country and I refuse to live in a police state that would enforce codes of behavior to protect the religious feelings of other people.
As long as no direct damage or harm is done, and the action was not designed to incite real physical violence upon a real human person or upon the property of others then it is protected here. And should be.
Desecration of a religious item is shameful. But if I thought that liberty demanded it I would mail him a box of church crackers and say "have at it". Freedom is that important. Liberty matters that much.
The point is that liberty is not helped by his actions. To increase liberty he should instead be encouraging the spread of reason and logic and a questioning and doubting mindset. That is the mindset that brought us the Enlightenment, a high point of human history. That is the mindset that removed the grip of theocracy from the throat of society, if only for a little while.
The greatest act of sacrilege that this teacher is engaged in is the sacrilege against reason - by not staying on the scientific method and encouraging doubt and questioning and instead distracting the public with his meaningless stunt.
And I have no idea what violence you are talking about. If he has ownership of the bread it is not an act against the property of others. Since it is not a human or an animal and is instead an object it is not real violence.
I work in mental health. I see the effects on families and individuals of real violence. Confusing his destruction of a cracker that has been ritually set apart with the real violence that plagues the world does an injustice to victims of the real thing.
I believe in the US it is legal to torture people, kidnap them from their own countries and lock them up without trial indefinitely.
I see the effects on families and individuals of real violence. Confusing his destruction of a cracker that has been ritually set apart with violence does an injustice to victims of the real thing.
Yeh, and people with AIDS should quit whining because it's not as if they've got bubonic plague.
I believe in the US it is legal to torture people, kidnap them from their own countries and lock them up without trial indefinitely.
Actually, in the USA it is illegal, which is why the buggers pretty much try to accomplish all of that on foreign soil.
The Shrubite Administration thought that because the US Naval Base located at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba was rented Cuban soil, they could get away with a lot of that shit, but the USA federal courts feel otherwise.
yes, unfortunately.
But the reason it is such a shame is that it is a denail of who we really are. Torture is vile and torture is unAmerican.
In the same wat that the monitoring of the populace by camera's in Tony Blair's Britain is a shame because it is so un British.
That the nation that gave us John Stuart Mill and his wonderful "On Liberty" would be covered in CCTV cameras and become an integral part of Mr Bush's war is a shame, too.
What is needed is more liberty.
Guantanamo Bay should be closed. That Mr Bush put that in place doesn't mean that I shouldn't defend the right of a nut job to make political or religious statements using a piece of special bread.
The good news is that when the Supreme Court finally saw the case of the Guantanamo Bay detainees a few weeks ago they ruled against Mr Bush and it is now widely accepted that the place is going to close. It isn't good enough. Bush and his cronies should be tried for war crimes. But we are headed back to standing for what matters.
You are right about torture. But be consistent in supporting liberty and support the right of people to do stupid and offensive things. Not because you agree with them but because liberty matters so much.
Totalitarian tendencies should be guarded against at all costs. Our watchword should always remain liberty. And whether the threat to freedom comes from religious extremists or from power-mad politicians the answer remains the same: doubt, questioning, reason, systematic investigation.
Again, that teacher should give up his stunt about the special bread and instead open those young minds to the value of free thought.
I defend his right to make whatever statement he is making, because liberty demands it. But I think that he is an ass who could do far more to remove the grip of superstition and the power of the authorities by doing his job. He should instead be teaching his students to think, to reason, to question and doubt anything that lacks evidence.
He is wasting his time with his little stunt but his right to do so is inviolate. Because liberty is too important to give up to protect the religious feelings of others from some imagined slight.
I don't think anybody has suggested that he should be locked up or anything. I think everybody agrees that it is a silly prank. I happen to think it is a violent act, as is the burning of a nations flag. It is substantially different to say "America stinks" to burning their flag. It is substantially different to say transubstantiation is a superstition to desecrating an object some people are superstitious about. It is substantially different to say a person is a heretic to burning a person at the stake.
From Wikipedia:
Violence is the exertion of force so as to injure or abuse. The word is used broadly to describe the destructive action of natural phenomena like storms and earthquakes. More frequently the word describes forceful and intentional injury to people, damage to property and verbal and emotional abuse towards others
wikipedia isn't that great of a source. but even with this definition: "forceful and intentional injury to people, damage to property and verbal and emotional abuse towards others" it doesn't apply.
It is offensive, but it isn't violence. No real injury results from him destroying pieces of bread that he owns. If he owned a Koran or a Torah and decided to destroy it to protest Middle East politics such would be a shame, too. But it would be legal and protected as free speech. Which it would be.
The real answer is for someone to have a quiet word with him suggesting that he drop it.
Unfortunately it is now in the media and someone who is getting attention for something like this is not likely to want to let it go.
Just because something is protected and legal doesn't mean that it is right. I would hope that he would stop the stunt and concentrate on teaching. The odds of that happening are probably slim, though.
Elsewhere in Central Florida: Bishop John Howe is quitting the Anglican Communion N(u)twork! :-D
http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/bishops/bishop_howe_quits_anglican_com.html
JCF: Yaaay, but he's going with another one of those alphabet soup groups that doesn't like "teh gays" and he still wants to change things in TEC.
I would hope he might find that harder than he thinks.
I miss going to Mass, believe it or not. But I haven't wanted to get attached to a parish here and start feeling somewhat safe in it, only to have some neocon come along and bugger it all up.
It is a permanent black mark against the US that the Gitmo detentions were allowed. To their credit, both major presidential candidates say they will close the prison down. Mr. Bush was ill-advised. I hope the various defense and legal "experts" that told him this was the way to go are long out of public life when either of the gentlemen enters office.
That said, no country has completely clean hands on this matter. I refer you to the "black and tan" in Northern Ireland.
Americans probably consider freedom of speech our single most important right and I think we arguably over-protect it. Flag and Bible / Q'ran burning is simply wrong 'conduct.'
On the other hand the same logic that allows desecration protects naked dancers so it t'aint all bad!
FWIW
jimB
But naked dancers desecrating the flag would be bad.
You wouldn't be able to see them properly.
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