Sex & God & Rock & Roll
You have some strange definitions there...the bulk of the opposing force against George Washington were British redcoats and German mercenaries...the "independence" was from the British tyrant and his nasty parliament with their unreasonable taxes and trade requirements...damn bullies...well, we showed them.
With the help of the Dutch, the French and the Spanish. George Washington was British as were all the main players. Some, like Thomas Paine, more so than others.
And don't forget the Russians and a few German and Polish paid consultants!
Infamy! Infamy! They all had it in for us!
HHmmmm! and does anyone here know why "they had it in for us?" which they certainly did......nij
We were all trying to steal bits of other people's lands all over the world at the time. The others thought that if they joined with you it would weaken us and that would mean they could steal even more land for themselves. But, freed from our commitments in America we ended up be militarily much stronger and became the dominant land grabber for the next hundred years or so. So, basically, you lot were responsible for the British Empire. Well done.
( suppose that u think I will object to that theory, and you lot WERE a bit greedy! However, One could wish that u had done a better job of educating your subjects in governing, 'cause many of your former colonies really struggle with governing themselves.......:>)
A fairly hefty chunk of the opposing forces were also loyalist colonists and many ended up in Canada after the war (this also included a fair number of former slaves to whom the British had promised freedom in exchange for their support during the war [not all of those promises were carried out]). Oddly enough a colonial ancestor of mine was a loyalist and ended up moving from New York to what was become New Brunswick and at least one of my ancestors living in England at the time was quite supportive of the revolutionaries.
Thanks, Erp. You illustrate what I am trying to say perfectly.
I'm just wondering what it is in the Saxon mind that seems to have this absolutely stellar talent at getting absolutely everyone around them thoroughly pissed off at them...and they, in turn, are thoroughly pissed off at everyone around them.
On the other hand, I guess I'd be pretty surly too if, throughout most of my history, I had Danes on one side of me and Romans on the other....
Danes to the left of me, Romans to the right,Here I am, stuck in the middle with you...
Mediterraenean history in a nutshell: a constant process of potty-training/housebreaking various Northern barbarians...
Yeah, but look at them now. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Silvio Berlusconi!!!
Who hails from a Celtic-founded city (Milan)!
Fr. Jonathon, I am so sorry, but I have to tell you, the British really, really, lost. As to the name, I understand a "civil war" to be about control. That is, "My good protestants are going to take over England!" is a civil war. "We are freaking out of your country!" is a war for independence. The first "quote" was from Oliver Cromwell, the second from John Adams. In any case, we won. Yes we owe great debt to the French' French Navy; Holland; Lafayette; DeKalb; von Steuben; Pulaski; and Thaddeus Kosciuszko. That list is incomplete too. We try to honor and remember them. I live near DeKalb County; the City of DeKalb; Pulaski Blvd; Kosciuszko, and Lafayette parks; and von Stuben High School. That is at best a partial list. We are surely a young, and mistake prone country. But we are definitely not Britain redux. Five hours from here, I can cross the border into another country and it is a lovely, wonderful and proud place. Canada has its "melting pot" successes and issues but compared to us, it is much more like England. One can hear the language change the moment one crosses the border. And the longer one is there (we love going there) the more the differences are obvious.In any case, please note: you lost.Yes we took every bit of help from every available source, and we probably cheated too. We honor the memory of a Virginian, Francis Marion, whose militia hid in the swamp, shot the English from ambush, attacked without warning, and drove the Lord Cornwallis crazy. Your troops probably would have hung him more for his tactics than his treason. Ok, but remember we won. So here in Illinois, we have Marion County. Other States have one too. Call it what you will, the Treaties of Paris are clear, you lost. Cheating again (I am sure) we managed to make the point again in 1812. We are a different thing. Not necessarily better, maybe not even a good thing, but we are something else. I am sorry, but Britian did loose. FWIWjimB
Did I say anything about winning or losing? I think not. I am merely pointing out that you were us and we were you so saying we threw you out is giving your ancestors an identity they didn't possess. We didn't become us and them until after we went our separate ways. Therefore it was a civil war or a revolution. It was never a war between two countries.
From a British view point, whereby the vast number or residents of the colonies came here from the British Isles and are legally British citizens, I can see your argument for defining the war as a "civil war" as a viable option - except that civil wars are fought on "home turf" and the "colonies" were NOT considered home turf and were not viewed as equal to the home turf of the British Isles. In fact, the colonists themselves were not treated as equals to citizens residing in the British Isles. This different in geography and difference in status is what makes the concept of a war for independance also a viable concept. Shall we call it a Civil War for Independence?
RE: MP's comment at 16.07...Which is why I myself am in he habit of calling that period of our history the "Revolutionary War" period. A "revolution" sounds sexier anyway.
I like "revolution." And I think my countryman, Thomas Paine would have liked that concept best as well.
We honor the memory of a Virginian, Francis MarionHeh, I'm even named after him!My birth certificate sez "JCMF" [Yes, that's the "M". Please feel free to make fun of the "MF" (JC the MF), too. ;-X]