Sex & God & Rock & Roll
Of course you are correct, Madpriest. When I hear "3000 Americans died in the Twin Towers" I point out that they weren't all U.S. citizens but people from all over the world. I know this as there were some Panamanians and other Central Americans working in there. Even using "Americans" as a term for everyone in the Americas, it wasn't just Americans who died.May their souls rest in peace.
And it ignores those who died in Pennsylvania and the Pentagon. O God, what are we doing? And that song does not speak for me - I refuse to listen to anymore than the 1 minute I gave it.
You completely missed the second and third song then, Lois.
That's okay, MP. I can live with that. I can live with it "feriver (the word verification)".
I must emphasise that I chose the death camp comparison because, of course, more Jews suffered than any other group, by a long way. But, I read something the other day about using the 9/11 anniversary to rethink our attitude towards the concept of the "human family." This will be a non-starter if we don't remember the atrocity as one human family.One interesting fact is that 12 times as many Muslims (not counting the terrorists) died in the twin towers that day than Mormons.
Indeed, MP. In fact I am struggling with what to preach on Sunday - without pandering, and without objectifying those who died, using their deaths to manipulate - and how to design the remembrance service in the afternoon. I'm opting for a straight Service of Public Healing for the afternoon. The sermon, well, still praying on that. But you remind we have a prayer For The Whole Human Family in our BCP. I could do worse than just pray that prayer and then sit down and wait.
I lasted even less than Lois. The idea that only American Christians died in the attacks is amazingly stupid. In fact, the target was the towers because it had Arab country oil offices among other reason. At the New York site, 1/8th of the casualties were not Americans. If the deaths of those in the building as opposed to the fire and police deaths is considered, the percentage climbs. A quick scan of the dead's native countries shows India with 41 dead third after USA and UK with its 61. Christians are a tiny minority in India so the most likely religion of those dead people is not Christian. Arab, Israeli, former Soviet Union, and a large number of African and Central Asian countries lost people who were almost certainly not Christians. It was after all the, World Trade Center.The idea that the site or the pain belongs to any one country or religion is amazingly offensive and plain wrong. FWIWjimB
Yes, Jim. Although it is absolutely right that the US is the focus of the remembrance and that Americans lead it. But they need to do the job properly.
Jim, thank you for those figures. They are helpful.
I seem to remember that there is some outrage at Mayor Blumburg's insistence that there be no clergy or prayer at the 9/11 commemoration at the WTC. I googled Blumburg and prayer. 3.5 million references popped up. I went thru 3 pages. They were pretty much all rabid about not being able to pray. . . There was even one suggestion that 6 minutes into the proceedings that everyone just start praying The Lord's Prayer! What about the non-christians that will be there? What will they pray? Lois, I don't know what else is going on at our church, but the Great Litany will be recited.
MP -- an article of interest. Not only is it not about "Americans", it's just a continuation of finding war as valuable http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/atheologies/4638/why_9_11_changed_everything_nothing
Wow! An excellent article, susankay. I commend it to everyone to read.
You raise an interesting question MP. Victims of terrorism or natural disasters or accidents, like plane crashes, are often classified by their nationality.
Another reason I don't like most country and western music: the original English/Celtic origins have been co-opted by the know-nothings and xenophobics for some time now, and while reading Tom Friedman's new book, "That Used to be Us", I am reminded of why it is so unlikely that Americans as a whole will respond to save our country from the decline that has been so carefully planned..... I realize I am preaching to the choir, but here is a reference that is one of the clearest explanations of the treason that has been foisted on the American public, mostly by the current leaders of the Republican party. This is really quite good... http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all-reflections-gop-operative-who-left-cult/1314907779
People like you and yours make me even happier that we threw you out in 1781.
This is the problem with my country - we cannot stand the truth when it challenges our preconceptions of ourselves. And our preconceptions have nothing to do with the truth. (sigh)
My guess is that USMaleSF has as much European blood in him as I have and if his ancestors were in America before the War of Independence they were probably European, not native American. So I have to assume from his ridiculously illogical comment that USMaleSF is his surname and that his first name is Braindead.
The reason I think the article (link above) is important is that it moves us beyond discussing who was most hurt by any "war" (and then feeling "togetherness" or some such warm fuzzy if we are in the designated group)to looking at how sick it is that we find value in war at all.(Trying to get you to read the article to which I provided link above)
I didn't make it over 16 seconds. At lest one of the Muslims who died that day was a first responder who died trying to save as many as he could from the towers. Why is it that his family should not have a place to pray for the repose of his soul at Ground Zero?